Bring the Nuclear Deterrent to England now

Robert Henderson

A Daily Telegraph report  of 27 January 2012  “Nuclear subs will stay in Scotland”  ( James Kirkup –http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9043092/Nuclear-subs-will-stay-in-Scotland-Royal-Navy-chiefs-decide.html) is most disturbing. The essence of the story is that should  Scotland votes for independence the  UK nuclear deterrent would for years have to remain  in what would then be  a foreign country.

Why could the subs, warheads and missiles not be brought to England?  Kirkup claims  the Ministry of Defence (MoD)  believes  the  provision of  new facilities for the nuclear deterrent  in England could take up to ten years to build.

The Trident missiles carrying  Vanguard-class submarines are  based at Faslane on the Gare Loch; the missiles and warheads are stored and loaded from  the nearby Royal Naval Armaments Depot Coulport, on Loch Long.  Kirkup quotes an unnamed source:  “Berths would not be a problem – there are docks on the south coast that could be used without too much fuss. But there simply isn’t anywhere else where we can do what we do at Coulport, and without that, there is no deterrent.” In other words, the subs could be accommodated immediately in England but the storing and arming facilities of Coulport could not.

The official description of Coulport is:

The Royal Armaments Depot at Coulport, eight miles from Faslane, is responsible for the storage, processing, maintenance and issue of key elements of the UK’s Trident Deterrent Missile System and the ammunitioning of all submarine-embarked weapons.

It also stores conventional armaments for Royal Navy vessels.

Because of the nature of its work, the site is subject to the most stringent external security regulators who authorise the depot to process nuclear weapons and provide support to nuclear submarines berthed at the Explosive Handling Jetty. (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/The-Fleet/Naval-Bases/Clyde/RNAD-Coulport

The claim that there is and will be the “most stringent external security” is questionable because the site has fallen prey to the privatisation mania with the day-to-day management moving in February 2012 from the MoD to  a commercial consortium led by the Atomic Weapons Establishment in alliance with  Babcock and Lockheed Martin (http://wmcnd.org.uk/news/nuclear-power-fukushima-and-chernobyl and http://www.nti.org/gsn/article/lockheed-group-to-manage-uk-nuke-installation/).

Kirkup reports an unnamed source saying “Maintaining the deterrent is the first priority for any UK government, so ministers in London would have to pay Salmond any price to ensure we kept access to [the Clyde bases]…It would be an unbelievable nightmare.”

The idea that it would take ten years to replace the  facilities Royal Naval Armaments Depot at Coulport is surely absurd. We know how quickly things can be done in wartime. This should be treated as a situation of equivalent urgency. Salmond must not be allowed to use it as a bargaining chip on the conditions of either independence or DEVOMAX.

Even if the referendum vote goes against independence, you may be sure that something like DEVOMAX will  be granted to Scotland by the current Westminster Government  which appears to have no sense of  protecting English interests. That will simply be a stepping stone to full independence.  If the nuclear facilities are left in Scotland in such circumstances they would ever be a hostage to fortune. The Government should not wait for a referendum, but begin the process of removing the nuclear deterrent facilities to England now.

If the nuclear deterrent was left in Scotland for years after independence it is almost certainly going to cause problems, not least with the Americans who supply the UK with the delivery system to for  the British made and owned warheads.  They might well be reluctant to allow their technology to be sited in what would then be a foreign   country with all the security implications that carries. (Amazingly, you may think, the UK only leases the missiles and they are pooled with the Atlantic squadron of the USN Ohio SSBNs at King’s Bay, Georgia).

In addition, there could be no certainty about what a future government of  an independent Scotland would do, or indeed how resolute a future Westminster government would be. The example of the three  Irish  Free State “treaty ports”  the Royal Navy continued to use  after the 1921 Anglo-Irish Treaty  is not encouraging. This agreement was abruptly terminated in 1938, a year before the feared  U-Boat menace to British shipping became a reality. The most dismaying thing with that episode was that the British government behaved in the most supine way – they gave and the Free State took – simply to end  a long-standing trade war with the Free State.

The worst case scenario would be to do nothing before the referendum, the vote is  for independence and Salmond  then insists  on the removal of the deterrent immediately because of the Scotch Numpty Party’s long-standing commitment to a nuclear free Scotland.

The MoD declined to discuss details of Kirkup’s story but a spokesman said  “The UK government position is clear and we are arguing the case for Scotland to remain within the Union. However, any decisions on Scotland’s future are for people in Scotland to decide.” This points to the coalition taking the Micawber strategy of waiting for something to turn. That will be unreservedly to England’s (and the British Isles) disadvantage.

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15 Responses to Bring the Nuclear Deterrent to England now

  1. Chris says:

    What makes you think that England will be able to afford the Trident replacement anyway?

  2. Laugh@Racists says:

    Please dont put them in England, It would make England a bigger nuclear target than it already is. Leave them in Scotland so they can be a target as well!!!!. Ha Ha Ha..

    How will England be able to pay for, or maintain these weapons in the future if Scotland devolves from the union, especially with the loss of the 22% of corporate taxes Scotland contributes. However moving more Government employment to England in suppport of these military weapons will be great for England and maybe reduce the percentage of Government workers per head in Scotland while increasing the same in England. I am sure the English tax payer doesnt mind an increase in taxes to pay for these weapons and additional governmental overhead. Maybe England could redivert funds from education to pay for these and thereby make English students pay more in fees, or what about user pays for health like in the US, no more national health, but at least you will have nuclear weapons.

    Scotland wont need these offensive weapons in the future, Scotlands new Government could focus the oil revenue not on military offensive wapons that will never be used, but on a modern military maritime patrol and a national and international defensive option. This would allow Scotland to reduce the current 3% of GDP to 1 % like other like minded countries. The funds saved could be used to enhance education, local industry, employment and health.

    If the education system in England suffers due to a lack of funding, then the richer English students could pay foriegn student fees to study in Scotland, much the same as rich families in other 3rd world countries currently do to study in the UK!!!!

    I fully support your idea of moving these as soon as possible, but England should pay for the removal, being that you claim that all military hardware will belong to England after devo!!! Even better if Scotland devolves quickly England can borrow from Scotlands oil revenue to continue to fund and move these weapons down south, or just continue to pay excessive rent for the use of these Scottish assets. However that would be a matter for the people of Scotland to decide, being that the land belongs to them of course.

    • William Gruff says:

      A McNumpty writes (in a ridiculous accent): ‘ .. hoe well Ainglend bee eeble to pee fer et … … ‘

      Let us worry about that Jock and concentrate on worrying about how a nation of just 160,000 net tax payers (most of them English) can hope to survive in the modern world without an indulgent English benefactor to guide and subsidise it?

      As for the corporate taxes: how long do you think the corporations will stay in McRuritania when the gravy train terminates at Berwick-upon-Tweed (England’s bastion against the Jock) ?

      I worked in Scotland for two years and all of the senior managers were English. The company, which was Scotch, although subsequently sold to an Icelandic concern, had been failing under Scotch management. The English, as usual, were called in to sort out the mess and turn the business round, which we did in no time at all. You buggers couldn’t organise a village fête, or a knitting competition, which seems more your style, what with your frilly blouses and your pleated skirts, and that you think you can be of any significance in world affairs without us to give you weight is laughable.

      As an aside: before you presume to laugh at ‘racists’, learn how not to make a complete bloody fool of yourself and try to suppress your all too obvious Anglophobia.

      Robert: These McCloans are awfully amusing, and I can see why you permit them to post here (it’s such fun twirling their skirts and taking the piss out of them), but even though the members delight in pleasuring themselves with lesser mortals, an exclusive club expects them to do so elsewhere. Let one Jock in and before you know it they’ll be shitting on the carpets and pissing in the lifts. Do consider some sort of admission policy, or some judicious kilt killing, purely in the comment sense of course.

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  4. Dan says:

    How is any of what you just wrote not racist against Scottish people? Sorry, I meant “Scotch”. Are you aware that’s an alcoholic beverage and not a people? “Frilly blouses and pleated skirts”; “Jock shitting on the carpets”; “kilt-killing.” And yet you cry Anglophobia! Positively hilarious. (I’m half-English half-Welsh before you ask, although my mother is Scottish, not that it should matter.)

    Given your frankly bizarre puking up of vitriol, I think I’ll take the only bit of your bile that had any factual relevance – that only 160,000 Scots are net tax payers, as probably misleading bullshit. OH LOOK, quick google search …

    HMRC doc on this very subject, if you’re interested? Probably not, as it would disrupt your fantasy that ungrateful Scottish people (Scotch, sorry) need our grumbling reluctant help to sort out their messes. Who knows, maybe you’re more open to new ideas than you seem (you seem prejudiced). http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/income_tax/table2-2.pdf. Go to page three. Here you’ll see that the 160,000 figure you pulled from your hate-filled cavities hasn’t been true since 1999 – and that those figures are talking about HIGHER RATE tax payers, you bigoted idiot. Total Scottish taxpayers are 2.5 million. Your “net tax payer” gibberish is just that. Do you have any idea how few people give more in tax than what government services pay for them? Even people who don’t take benefits, or who don’t put their kids through state schools, or use the NHS? Police, Defence, the frickin binmen. All hidden costs, hidden services. ONLY people on high incomes can be a so-called “net tax payer” – hence the correlation.

    This year, England’s higher-rate payers are 3.2 million. Out of 25 million taxpayers, that is 12.8%. Scotland is 288,000 out of approx 2.6 mil. That’s 11.2%. Per capita, there really is nothing in it, not to mention that since 1999 higher rate tax payers in Scotland have been increasing well over double the rate of that of England. The disparity in 1999 was still only 9% England/7% Scotland, and its shrunk almost every year since.

    And that’s how far I’ve had to go just to debunk one ignorant smear driven by the race hatred of a (particularly putrid) so-called “English Nationalist.” The only thing more difficult, as someone who lives in Scotland and takes an interest in what sort of place I’m going to be living in in the coming years, than sifting through the mindnumbing cyclical drivel that dominates the so-called mainstream press is fricking idiots like you, or extreme scotnats on the other side, arguing either that it’s going to be the new North Korea or Heaven on Earth. Is no one interested, you know, in ACTUAL FACTS anymore, or just their own petty bigotries?

    Feel free to e-mail me Mr. Gruff if you have anything constructive to say, which I somehow doubt.

    On another note, I agree with the thrust of the original article.

  5. Laugh@racists says:

    Wrong again racist Angerlisman. I am from as far as any one could be from Scotland, however I am married to an English girl. Me thinks you protest too much!!!!! Even though you say you dont care, It really irks you this devo doesnt it? It is because you have no control and you are helpless, you feel deserted and alone ad you know what your contry is becomiing, the rioting will only get bigger when you have to pay for all these weapons yourself and the austerity measures kick in.

    Unfortunately the best you have to offer is unfounded superiority clap trap. If Scotland wants to go it alone financially and independantly govern their lands and resources rather than be run and controlled from England, then that should be their choice not yours it is their right. You are just angry because you cant control it. The only comeback you have are racist slurs like Jock, Scotch or McNumpty….. Sticks and stones, silly willy – did you mother not tell you that!!.

    You are a sad sad person, and so are the weak minded racists on this site. I dont say all English are like you because you are the miniorty, however it is typical of your sort to want to ban anyone who shows you for what you are… a racist who wants to sit back and whinge about everyone else – yes the age old typical “whinging pom”. You are right to beg Robert to ban everyone who disagrees with your point of view so as you can continue to spread your hate speech wthin your small minded litlle group much like the Nazi party did….

    My country and family fought under the union jack for your country when you were threatend by the Nazi’s, my great uncle died in Singapore and another in Egypt so you could have the freedom to express your self, even if it is a load of racist tripe. Isnt it ironic now that you behave exactly like the Nazis with your racist propaganda and morally corrupt belief of superiority. You are always right and you believe it is your god given right as a supremasist to squash anyone who challenges you. By the way my country was once part of the UK and then it became a dominion and wait for it……… we are doing just fine thankyou very much, it is Europe with its currupt banking system that has contributed to the collapse, and where is one of the main centres for banking…London. If you dont think the RBS is tied to the London banking system then you are a fool.. We dont need English money to prop us up and thank God we were not tied to the London banks, otherwise we would be in the same situation. I live in a paradise where freedom of speech is valued..

    I do feel very sorry for you and your sad angry life though it must be terrible in England fi you are so bitter with your life, the Scottish must have tormented you so much for you to be this bitter about a particular race. I hope it all goes well for you and you are free from the people you hate so much!!!!

    Good luck Angerlishman

    • William Gruff says:

      It doesn’t take much to unearth a real racist, does it, and thank you for being so obliging. A whingeing Aussie? LMFAO. I have a cousin there. He says that whingeing POMS usually have Scotch accents. My experience of Aussies in England is that they hate buying their own beers and blame the English when they must pay for themselves (the worst barman I have ever met in England, and the only barman I have have complained about, was an Aussie gobshite). That notwithstanding, your great uncle’s death in Singapore had nothing to do with my freedom in England although my mother’s service there had much to do with your freedom in Australia, or wherever you live. You might profitably learn a little more economic history and a great deal more British Commonwealth and Empire history before venting your McSpleen.

      You obviously have nothing constructive to add to the debate so I’ll leave you to have the last McWord. Thread ended as far as I am concerned.

  6. Laugh@racists says:

    You already said the last two posts were you last word you idiot …… but wait your the kind that has to always have to have the last word dont you….. and wrong again tosser…. Take another stab at racism against another nationality… I am sure you have more… you are well practiced little willy

    • JFen says:

      Why are you even subscribed to this blog?

      Just to shout obceneties at people. I must admit ‘well practiced little willy’ made me laugh.

      And just what is wrong with you punctuation?

  7. Laugh@racists says:

    JFen, are you really that afraid of people seeing and having their say on these racist comments?

    I did not subscribe to this blog, it is the internet which means it is an open forum. I came across it when I went to look at what all the fuss on the vote was about, so I would say many other nationalities would also see this. Not a good look really, as it does nothing to portray an educated and tolerant England.

    Are you afraid that others disagree and have an opinion? If so I would recommend having a private blog for like minded people, where others that do not agree with your groups sentiments can not interfere. This can be achieved by establishing a closed user group where you can slag off other nationalities and cultures. I dont agree with alot of what Robert says in his blogs, however I do respect the fact that he allows others to have their say.

    I take your point though, and you have a good life.

  8. Macdonald says:

    Currently Faslane naval base is 13km’s to my mums house………Cracking nice base it is too, Greatest breakfast ive had in a UK Military facility,
    But if you really want it, why not put the UK’s entire Nuclear arsenal next to YOUR mums house. She might even have enough room in her cunt.

  9. Pingback: All you could ever want to know about Scottish independence | England calling

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